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"New Age" Doctrinal Heresy
A Reader Writes:
Answer: Hello. Be careful of those New Age people, it is the religion of Lucifer. To them, Lucifer is their god, their star, their morning star, their light-bearer. And "what" is "on" them can rub off on others if they're not careful. New Agers do not believe in God, though they will claim that they do. But the god that they believe in is nothing like the Lord God of the Bible. Now, there are as many New Age doctrines as there are New Age people; for, they have no set doctrine. So that makes it difficult to convert one, because they all believe a little differently. But there are core tenants illustrated in all their doctrines. The main being this: A New Ager does not believe in God and Jesus Christ―not like we do. They believe that, sure, these entities exist, but that they are not what our Bible says they are. They believe that our Bible was a forgery. To the New Ager, Jesus Christ was not any different that we are, save that he reached the mystical enlightenment. They believe that we too shall progress spiritually into this supernatural, all knowing, everlasting state on our own. By what we learn. That is the danger to some SCN students and many other deeper Bible students. If one is not careful, and does not stay grounded on solid Biblically-documentable doctrine, he/she can be seduce by the esoteric (hidden 'wisdom'). Esoteric doctrine is deep complicated false doctrine that supposedly (so they are told) can only be grasped by those ready to make the leap to a form of early godhood. From there they presume to make the final cross-over into the realm of the gods. They presume to become a god, and thus, they shall be like Him. This is perverted doctrine and a great sin and blasphemy. This is exactly at the point at which Lance Knight and the other teachers of the "Manifest Sons of God" and "Manchild" and "Tabernacle" doctrines (see our: Anatomy of a False Doctrine , and, The Overnight fall of Pastor Lance Knight and his Flock (with audio excerpts of Lance's heretical 'teachings'), etc.). They are all false doctrines, which while bearing many different names, and which each having a little different spin, are all the age old lie, "and ye shall be as gods", spawn in the Garden of Eden six-thousand years ago by one serpent (satan) to Eve. Eve was destroyed, and so too shall all who fall prey today:
Regarding the star: The Scriptures are clear that the star was of Christ, it was to announce Him. Satan had nothing to do with the star (And if he had tried to do anything, I would think that he would have tried to extinguish it!):
Regarding the New Agers quest to become gods, to become equal to the Lord God and Jesus Christ, God had a word for them:
In Heaven, we are not gods, we are not equals of God , we are still Children, and He is still, FATHER:
Some wonder how these Bible students could become so off-track (to put it mildly), and they fear that if these Bible students, many of whom were once quite able Bible students, and very advanced, could fall; then how can we stand, since they were once as us, since they were once one of us? Honey, they never were one of us. Oh, they came out from us, all right; but, they were not really one of us:
Peace to you in Christ Jesus.
________________________________________________________________________
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| Back To Top | "Eight Things" About mainstream Christian Doctrine
A Reader Writes:
Hello; I am in substantial agreement with you, except for your doubt of the immortality of the soul. The soul is immortal since when it was first created―till it is extinguished in the Lake of Fire, the SECOND death. Also, I don't see any problem celebrating Christmas, as long as it is done to Christ Jesus, not Santa Clause. Easter is fine if you do it to Jesus Christ and not to Easter Bunnies and grove orgies. For us, Heaven is a time, not a place. The Jews, those who try wholly to be Jews, are the enemy of God and Christ, not the chosen people of God. But any Jewish person can come to believe upon Jesus Christ and be saved from the fires that await his fellows and all unbelievers. Whence this occurs (conversion) I do not even consider them Jews, no more than I would consider an Atheist to be an Atheist after conversion to Christ Jesus. The people running around the world here calling themselves "Jews" are a mixed people; and therefore, there is no such thing, technically, as the Jewish race. Not by blood, anyway. Being a Jew is a club that you get into for denying Jesus Christ and following the antichrist Talmud. Most "Jews" are not even religious. The term, or classification, "Jew," is much misunderstood. The Trinity is one God with one Spirit who came to Earth as one man―Jesus Christ. What people see in the Rapture doctrine is actually miss-timed Second Advent events. They mess up on the timing. They shall meet Christ in the air, but not until the Second Advent. There is much work here on Earth for us few real Christians to do―before Christ does any returning. There is only one more reappearing of Jesus Christ; and when He does come at this last (Second) Advent, EVERY EYE shall see Him. No secret rendezvous for the Baptists and Pentecostals, etc.. Sorry, they will just have to wait like the rest of us common Christians. And yes, they shall endure the Tribulation along with every other creature on God's good Earth who is alive at the time of Jacob's trouble. The only problem, for them, is that they shall be wholly unprepared; and, at that critical time, begin to doubt all that they know of the Scriptures and the may well feel that God has betrayed them. When antichrist and his Judaics are running this world, moving people to worship their image under threat of death―this is the absolute worst time for a Christian to be doubting their God and Savior Jesus Christ. That, my friend, is the true danger of all the various Rapture dogmas. Hell is not the end, for in Rev 20:14, we see Hell itself cast into the Lake of Fire. Therefore, the Lake of Fire is after Hell; so, Hell cannot be the final destination of the lost and the damned. The end-stop for the non-overcomers is the Lake of Fire, which is the SECOND death―the death of a soul. Thee is nothing left to punish or kill after God extinguishes an eternal soul in the lake of Fire. It is complete perdition―a complete perishing; i.e., no more―for ever. And yes it is eternal, and yes it is agony to not-be when you could have-been for ever. But they won't know it because they won't-be anymore.
Once saved, always saved is true, but not the way that we see it. If you truly are a Christian, then you shall not perish. We use the term "saved" in that phrase (once saved always saved), but what we really should be saying is once Christian always Christians―for salvation is synonymous with Christianity. The term "saved" is more of a man's term than of a Scriptural statement. You become "saved" by becoming a Christian. Today, there is no such thing as an unsaved Christian, and no such thing as a saved non-Christian. And how can one who truly believes in Jesus Christ, turn around and stop believing that Truth? He cannot. But maybe he never really believed it in the first place? Would it surprise you to know that there are "Christian" clergy who do not believe? Hey, it's a good job, you never go hungry, don't have to work hard; all your sermons are pre-printed by the governing church body, great pension, travel, prestige, power, access to women and children (for the perverted ones); the church can be a draw to a non-believer and a pedophile and a womanizer, etc. Just because a man wears a certain garment does not mean that he works for God in his heart. But don't judge which is which―God shall judge them, both the good and the bad ones. Some to glory, some to perdition. But what of this doctrine that you speak of: "once saved always saved?" The problem is that many who say they are saved are not. Many who say that they are Christians are not. Many make that "Altar call" in some church, but don't really mean it; they just got carried away with the moment, wanted their life to be fixed, or just wanted to be part of the group. Many people are in card-clubs, not because they love to play cards, but because they enjoy the fellowship. So it is in the churches, at times, as well. Many claim to be Christians, but their heart is far from Christ. We are not to judge who is, and who isn't, a true Christian; God shall do that; but just because you call yourself a Christian by classification does not mean that you are a Christian in your heart. Did not Jesus even say that many who claim to be Christians (and we could add: many who claim to be saved), are not:
This could only be aligned with the below Scripture by saying that, many who say they are Christians, are not:
So; who's who? Let God judge. Peace to you in Christ Jesus.
________________________________________________________________________ The Writer replies:
Hello. After reading your below statement I can no longer say that I am in substantial agreement with you, as I had said earlier. You stated:
Ummm....Sorry, but I do not think that the Holy Trinity is a heresy! And I feel that referring to it as such, is nigh unto blasphemy. I cannot agree with you. And you like to use made-up words with endings of "ism", and use them as pejoratives. I could call your view that there are three Gods in Heaven: "Polytheism", if I wanted to play the "ism" game.
The definition of your word "Modalism" is not in the dictionary; not in the above American Heritage Dictionary, nor in AOL's on-line Merriam-Webster Dictionary. Hank Hanegraaff made it famous when he used it to slander pastor Arnold Murray [Hank says that what Pastor Murray teaches is called "Modalism", which I stand now before you so accused]. Then Internet "copy & paste'rs" spread it far and wide. Hank Hanegraaff is the guy that they call "The Bible Answer man" on the radio. His ministry was not originally his; he stole it from the founder's widow, after the founder died. That's Bad fruit in anybody's book! Quit being used by the dark side to slander Christian ministers, Christian teachers, and Christian Scripture; and most of all: The Holy Trinity/Triune Godhead, or whatever else you wish to term it. We have a study on the matter of the nature of our Lord, at: The Holy Spirit & The Holy Trinity Peace.
________________________________________________________________________
Ok. Perhaps we are both letting emotions cloud our discussion. Have you read my work on the Godhead? If not, then how can you understand my position? Take an hour and read it, won't you? Or, just skim it if you like―but it does explain my position―with the Scriptures. Judge my doctrine by what I write, not by what others say I write, or by your perceptions about what I write, when you haven't read it. I am a very busy person, but I devote time to you; the least that you can do is devote an hour to this study and see just what exactly it is that I believe on the matter: Peace.
________________________________________________________________________ The Writer Replies Again:
And that is not meant to be a flippant answer to your question. Actually, it is the only accurate answer. The problem is, is that you are trying to understand Heavenly matters by reasoning them within the bounds of this flesh world. Heaven is different than here. God is more than we. And I understand your quandary, it is the one that stumbles most―that being: how can Jesus Christ be God and yet be sent from God. How can Jesus Christ be here on the Earth and yet speak to Himself in Heaven. What is confusing to people is that they do not perceive that Heaven is here, in another dimension. There is no rock fortress flying around in space with a sign-post reading: "Heaven." Heaven is wherever God is, and when Jesus came to Earth, He was "God with us": The Prophecy:
The Fulfillment:
Therefore, Heaven had descended upon man, but they knew it not: "But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you." (Luke 11:20). Everybody knows what "the Kingdom of God" is; it's what we call Heaven. And to go to the Kingdom of God at the last day, IS to, as we say: "go to Heaven." And when Christ returned to His place, Heaven departed. But the Holy Spirit was sent to indwell all Christians everywhere; so that a part of God, His very Spirit even, remained with good men of faith everywhere who believe upon Jesus Christ. This what Jesus meant by: "behold, the kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21b). He meant that a part of God, the Holy Spirit, indwelled the faithful. This is that which you the Christian feel inside when you pray.
Now the above Pharisees never saw that Kingdom, for, they rather rejected The Kingdom, killed The King, and put the final prophecies in abeyance (not yet) until the time of the end. But from since the time of Christ, when that Holy Spirit of God was sent to men of faith everywhere, the Kingdom is awaiting manifestation. An urgent point must desperately me made here. There are "groups" that misinterpret this (see our expositions on their doctrines: Anatomy of a False Doctrine , and, The Overnight fall of Pastor Lance Knight and his Flock (with audio excerpts of Lance's heretical 'teachings'), etc.) They conceive in their own little seduced minds that since a part of God (the Holy Spirit) resides in the hearts of the faithful―that the faithful, become a part of God; in effect―become gods! This is err, and it is great blasphemy! And it is a seductive doctrine, the same one that overthrew Eve then Adam. We are never to be as God so much that we become an equal to Him; but rather, we are conformed to His image, but not perfectly. He is The Ever-Living SPIRIT, but we are only created spirits. Created by God. And many of those spirits that are us humans on this Earth shall go on to be de-created; i.e., destroyed forever in the Lake of Fire. But God (and Jesus, as he Himself so states in Rev 1:8 ) are Eternal. Jesus states: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (Rev 1:8). [That's pretty compelling, friend!] We are always to be His children, and He is/was/shall be always to be our God. And never the twain shall mix. He is God, we are His children; He created us, He shall destroy many; but, He is more, and we are less. For, how can the made thing be as the Maker of the the thing? They CANNOT! What these poor misguided and overthrown souls (those who believe as the errant ones do spoken of in the above paragraph) do not understand [Pray for them now―before it is too late for them], is that the "manifestation of the sons of God", spoken of below; do not happen until the New Heaven and New Earth of Revelation chapter 21 (saved for those of the First Resurrection of Rev 20:4-5):
Are revealed here, in Heaven, at the end:
And it is in that Heaven, at that time, where this "manifestation of the sons of God" are to be come about. And when this occurs, when this eternity begins, we see that He is forevermore the Lord God, Yehovah is His name; and that He is still the Father, still the God; and we (of both genders when on Earth), who make it into the eternity, are still and forever, the children, the sons of God; and, as God has declared, at that time: "I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev 21:7b). And not a moment sooner; Certainly not today! Simply and perfectly stated: The sons of God are the angels. period. Now there were (and are today) bad angels and good angels, but all are the sons of God. In Gen 6 we see the bad angels, commonly referred to as "the fallen angels"; but they were still the sons of God. In the eternity these bad angels will no longer be―they shall have been utterly destroyed in the Lake of Fire. But today there are still good and bad sons of God (angels). But these sons of God are in the Heavenly realm, they do not walk about upon the Earth. Earth is for flesh man, Heaven for the sons of God (angels). But God does send good angels to do his bidding―these are always called in Scripture "the angel of the Lord." Now, these bad angels did come here to the Earth long ago, That was their sin; the spiritual beings were not to ever have contact with flesh man. Much less to seduce flesh women sexually, as they did:
And in the end, in the Tribulation, these evil sons of God, these bad angels, shall once again visit man on the Earth―then God help us―more so, may I pray: God help our women! But it isn't the same bad angels from Gen 6 that shall come, but rather their fellows; for, the ones from Gen 6 are incarcerated awaiting Lake of Fire time in Rev 20.
In closing, before we were born out of our mother's belly―we were all, both males and females today, the sons of God in Heaven. That is why the sons of God in Heaven are forbade to have contact with their fellows (us) whilst we are in this limited flesh body and mind. Here they can overpower and outwit us (as they did the women in Gen 6), but when we were in Heaven, before being born here, we were equal in power with them. What the fallen angels (sons of God [the bad ones]) in Genesis chapter six really did when they took the human women sexually, was to defile them in ways that a human mind cannot now fathom! Surely Heaven was rocked to her very foundations! Evidenced by God's great wrath, both here and in Heaven. Those angels that fell, those sons of God, are unredeemable; they are the damned. And they know it―that is the horror that they currently abode in.
And no! Us pre-existing and coming from Heaven into our mother's wombs is not reincarnation. Reincarnation is a lie from satan to make people think that they can live as they wish on this Earth, not obeying God's edicts, and not following God's only path to salvation―Jesus Christ; and then after they die, come back and "do it better" next time. There is no more next time, once we die, we have sealed our books. These are among the books that God opens in Rev 20:12 & 15 on Judgement Day. Every son of God (angel [us!]) comes through this flesh world only one time (save for those miracles where Christ and select others in the Scriptures raised the dead―but this was for our benefit to show the power of God over death). But you do know that we were in Heaven with God before He sent us here; don't you? If not, then where did you come from? the Bible knows where you came from:
Now maybe we can understand better why it was that on several occasions, God pre-named a child (Jesus, John the Baptist, etc.) and told of what a person would do beforehand―God did this because HE KNEW the person (soul) that He was sending into that particular womb at that particular time. Notice also in the below Scripture that God speaks of Samson before he was born, and that God knew what manner of man Samson was:
Many more examples like this can be found in the Scriptures. And these people that God foreknew, and whom He had chosen, were not robots; they had their own personalities and made many mistakes along the way; which they would not have made had God been using them like a robot. My point is that God did not just "possess" these people (for want of a better term), but rather that He foreknew them, and knew that they were the right man for the job. We existed before we were born; and those of us who believe upon Christ and attain to everlasting life, shall once again be with him, once again calling Him: Father. And He shall once again call us each, both males and females of today, My son. The sons of God. One final note: As do many on nature of God, so too did not Nicodemus also wrestle with trying to understand Heavenly things by the rules of Earthly things:
Peace to you in Christ Jesus.
________________________________________________________________________ The Writer Replies:
I agree that we are to all think for ourselves. And I would not respect you as a serious Bible student if you did not. But with the thinking for one's self, we must also be willing to be convinced by clear Scriptural documentation when we encounter it. I will address your question tomorrow; Ok? I have to do some things right now. PS: And I know that you don't believe in multiple Gods, nor even in three Gods. But when one takes a critical look at your present perception of the Holy Trinity (or Godhead, or whatever name man places upon it), one can only come to the conclusion that there is three Gods [or two]. That is the ultimate outcome of the doctrine as you now see it. Though I know that you are not well pleased when this is observed. But think about it: What other conclusion can be arrived at by viewing the Godhead in the manner that you do? Reconsider. Search the Scriptures with no pre-conceived notions, with no other teachings in your mind―just act like you are opening the book for the first time and are trying to determine the nature of God and the meaning of the Holy Trinity/Godhead. You will be refreshed. Peace to you in Christ Jesus.
________________________________________________________________________ (To be continued.) But the writer was wrong about his summation of the meaning of the word "one". "One" means "one," not two that are like one, but two that are the same one. below is the word "in question":
But the most compelling proof that Jesus was calling Himself God comes from the context of the surrounding Scripture. Below, we see our verse (Jn 10:30) in context within the entirety of the thought―within the context of what Jesus was trying to teach. Often times when we pull a verse out of context, and analyze it as it stands alone―we end up misinterpreting the true meaning. This is the case in this present debate. The writer has pulled John 10:30 out of the Scripture, out of context; and standing alone, it has been made to mean something that it does not mean; or, rather, has been made not to mean something that it does mean; i.e., that Jesus was in fact God. The writer did this in error, and I am sure that right about now he is nodding in agreement. And if not yet now, he will be nodding in agreement in about one minute as he hears the below explanation. In the whole below exchange between Jesus and the Jews you see that,
It might also be helpful to know that the word "my" in our verse 30 is not actually in the manuscripts; it was added, well-intentioned, by the Translators to make a more complete readable English sentence. Often, words must be added when translating from one language to another. This is normal and acceptable; and does not constitute the sin of "adding to the Scriptures" (Rev 22:18-19) But as we see, sometimes they complicate the reading by their choice of words. In the below diagram, we see in the top row, the English words in the KJV Bible. The row below that is the transliteration of the Greek words from the manuscripts that the KJV Translators used to make our English Bible. Below that are the actual Greek characters from that manuscript. And below that are the Strong's Concordance numbers. The things below that are unimportant to our present topic, but are just parsings and alternative manuscript readings, which in this case are the same.
One thing that you should notice is that there in no Strong's number under the word "my" (the "9999" indicates a non-number) I have show it highlighted with a black background in the above with my mouse curser. So, the verse:
Would better read:
Notice also the definite article (ho #3588) preceding "Father", for it means, THE Father; not a father. I cannot now have the time to prepare a defense for the Oneness of God, but the below should set one on their own study. Below is the concordance search for the word ("one" Greek #1520). There are 282 occurrences of that Greek word in the KJV Bible (New Testament). I have scrolled the list down so that the verse of John 10:30 is at the top. There are many other verses shown in the below picture whish illustrate that "one" means ONE. The yellow highlighting indicates the word(s) in English that came from the Greek word for "one":
PS: As you can see, the BibleSoft program that I utilize here is invaluable for faster, deeper study. You may read about this program and follow a click-through link to purchase it from Amazon. com if you so desire: SOFTWARE: PC Study Bible Version 4 Reference Library Plus Yes, I get credit if someone buys through a click-through link from my Website. (I just want to be up-front with that.) I think that I get 3% to 5% on certain products. Not much, but it adds up to about a hundred or so dollars a year that I roll back into the Website for related costs, infrastructure, and research materials. In closing, may we say along with Thomas:
Peace to you in Christ Jesus. Back to list of questions at top of page
| Back To Top | Follow-up Questions on the, "The State Of The Dead", Bible Study
Hello. Several points were brought up after the above study (The State Of The Dead) was posted that called for more clarification. This is fine and this is good―I want that readers write in and ask for more clarification if they feel that I have left some point undone, or if I have not supplied enough documentation to make any point, or if they just plain don't agree with me. I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me―I only ask that they disagree with me by supplying Scriptures that they feel contradict a point that I may have made. After all, for me, the word on any matter is the written Word. Once we stray from that we have no foundation, no absolutes. I will post these below, with answers, so that those who had the same question, but did not ask, may also be presented with the evidence for their discernment.
Answer: Hello. As to your last point, may I simply present Christ's words: "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead , but of the living." (Matt 22:31-32). I think perhaps the problem that you and I are having here is with the definition of "immortality." Immortality simply means "not liable to die" (a flesh death). You notice the word "mortal" is in "immortality." Many confuse "immortality" with saved-forever-in-Heaven. This is not so; for, is not satan even immortal, yet he too shall perish in the Lake of Fire. The three Hebrews in the fiery furnace (Daniel 3:19-28) were transformed for a moment into their immortal spiritual bodies; thus, the flames could not harm them. But they at that time were not yet judged; for, Judgement Day for all is in the end of Revelation chapter twenty. Do not confuse the different bodies with eternal salvation. They are apples and oranges. Right church, wrong pew. They are different parts of the same plan. But they are different subjects with different objects.
Mortals are flesh men, immortals are spiritual entities. When we die, our flesh dies, our mortal part perishes―but we go into an immortal state (until Judgement Day), or rather that part of us that is immortal continues on. Then, at Judgement Day comes the second death for some. This second death is not a death of any flesh, for all flesh has by then perished―but rather, the second death is the death of a soul, the death of that part of you that continued-on after you died your mortal death. Immortality is not everlasting life, it is the state of not being able to die any more (in the flesh); for, you are then spirit, not flesh. This is where the second death comes in, and it is why that God provided for a second death. This second death is eternal perdition, the blotting out of a soul in the Lake of Fire. Between the first death and the second death there necessarily has to be some sort of resurrection. If "the dead" were dead and gone, there would be no need for a second death. The resurrect into their angelic bodies and then go to Judgement Day. These bodies apparently look similar to our flesh ones; for, the angels seen by men in the Bible are all described as young men, and there is no indication that there was anything remarkable about their appearance. The only difference is that there is not a female form in an angelic body. Females today will have a body as the other (male) angels when they resurrect. Observe in the below all the references to flesh mortality as opposed to the spiritual immortality that comes after. The below is not speaking of eternal salvation yet, for none (save for satan and select of his evil angels) had yet at that time been judged, nor have they yet been judged today. And many who rise shall rise to eternal damnation, the second death. As Daniel explaines:
Resurrection is not the prize, for even a serial-murderer shall resurrect for Judgement. The "prize" is eternal life with God. In verse three above, these "stars" are the sons of God that we spoke of in the original study. We see them mentioned below, where satan had tried to overthrow God in the world that was:
Job speaks of these "stars of God." And to the writers comment: "but you put up one heck of an argument for the immortal soul teaching" I would add the below Scripture to that "one heck of an argument" regarding that we were with God before we were born through our mother's womb (which what the writer means by "immortality of the soul." Others call it "pre-existence" of the soul). For, these stars of God/sons of God were with God BEFORE He laid the foundations of the Earth; as a careful read of the entire chapter shall declare. Below we excerpt that chapter:
Moving on. Paul offers hope to the Christians in the below, but these two forms are common to all men, both good and bad. And the bad shall go on to the Lake of Fire second death, and the good (and/or forgiven) to eternal life in a resurrected spiritual body―as the angels who overcome.
If I haven't made my point, here, perhaps it will be clearer in the below questions. Bear with me please.
New Question (Different Writer):
Hello. Thank you for the blessings at the end of your letter. May our Lord bless you as well. I think I know what you are asking/are concerned over. (If I've missed your point, please write back.) I think that a lot of what you asked was kind of like the "apples & oranges" of the previous question. And also, please understand that we may well be at the very threshold of what God will reveal of this matter, As I stated in the original study, Paul went to Heaven and saw things that were unlawful for a (flesh) man to know. We can only grasp what God gives us; and admittedly, He has left a hole here in this matter. We aren't to understand all things. I cannot take it past the Scriptures. What God has given us, God has given us, what He has withheld, we cannot now know. For all that we know, our flesh minds may not be able to handle it. And if He told us now, perhaps we'd go insane. We just can't understand spiritual matters perfectly while we are within the bounds of the flesh. We flesh men use 10% of our brains; in the spiritual realm we shall have 100%. Well, maybe dumping that other 90% on a flesh mind would burn it out. Who knows? God knows. Look at how many women have trouble accepting the simple fact that there is no female form in angels, and they will not have their present gender in the eternity (but their soul shall be there, they will be there with their own present personality). But how much more hard to accept things greater than this? And I hope that this isn't sounding like a cop-out; for, it is not. But if Paul, who was taken to Heaven, and who saw all these things, could not (or would not) speak perfectly on this matter―how can you and I?
In other words, Paul couldn't tell us certain things―he was forbade. It's just like as with the overthrow in the world that was. There is enough evidence in Scripture to document that it indeed occurred; but, not enough to speak perfectly on the matter, knowing all things of it. And did not Paul even state:
I will pull your questions out of your letter. But I think that what you are seeing as contradictions in what I wrote, are really your misinterpretation of what I was saying. Perhaps that is my fault for not being clearer. Your below questions shall help me to more perfectly explain what I was trying to say. You asked:
No, to the first question, "DO WE OR DON'T WE GET RESURRECTED AT TIME OF DEATH??"; and yes to the second. When we die, we change. Our soul leaves the flesh body and ascends to God. This is not a resurrection, but merely a laying down of the flesh, a change of form and substance, but the same entity. We continue on. Once again, man's terminology clouds the issue. You cannot equate "resurrection" with "eternal salvation life." And that is what I think that you are doing, and that which is causing you confusion. When defining Scriptural usages of words, we must use Scripture to define them; we cannot use a Webster's Dictionary to understand Scripture. Perhaps that is why wise scholars have so much trouble understanding and believing Scripture; but the common man, the average Joe, the "babes" understand that which confounds the professors and doctors.
Paul also speaks of this concept:
Regarding the resurrection and when it occurs: Scripture is clear as to when the first resurrection occurs. First, as you know, means that there are none before it:
The above Scripture clearly occurs chronologically AFTER the below Scripture; therefore, the "dead in Christ" in the below Scripture are not the first resurrection (nor can they yet have been, at that time, in any resurrection); for they did their rising BEFORE the first resurrection:
Also adding confusion to this matter is that "rising" is not necessarily "resurrecting"; it may be in our present English, but not in the Bible. Now, to add further confusion here, admittedly; the people that are alive at His coming (at the 2nd Advent) are resurrected into their final spiritual bodies (sons of God) because we see them in the above Revelation 20:2 Scripture; they are the ones below (which I have embolden and underlined):
Now, these which "and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;" (Rev 20:4b) are those who: "are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord" (1 Thes 4:15) AND had not been killed, nor had they taken the mark of the beast. Some will say that the above, who didn't take the mark, are the same ones who were killed. But the killed ones were killed because they didn't take the mark; it was not necessary to repeat saying that. All shall be required to take this mark, and those who don't, shall be killed (these are the martyrs of Rev 20:4 above): "...and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed." (Rev 13:15b). Therefore, the qualifier in Rev 20:4 above, "and which had not worshipped..." is added information to explain the presence of those in the Millennium who hadn't been killed. God doesn't waste words; if there is something interjected into a Scripture―it has purpose and meaning. Let me explain it like this: It would be like me saying: "Those killed in the car crash were put into an ambulance and those who survived the crash were put into an ambulance." Question: If everyone died in the car crash, would it have been necessary for me to add: "and those who lived in the crash were put into an ambulance"? No, it would not; for, since all died we know that all were put into an ambulance. I was inserting further information into the sentence to show you that not everyone died in the car crash, but they all ended up in the ambulance. It was only necessary that I write the second sentence to show that not all died who were in the ambulance. The same goes for the Millennium Scripture above (Rev 20:4), and answers quite nicely as to what becomes of those at the Second Advent who had remained faithful, and had not died, but rather "are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord" (1 Thes 4:15). That there are Christians who survive the Tribulation unmarked by satan should be comforting to many Christians who fear being killed in the Tribulation; or worse, fear being deceived by antichrist to their own peril. Not all Christians shall die during the Tribulation; however, as we saw in our study (Scriptural Evidences That Christians Shall Die In The Great Tribulation), Scripture in the book of Revelation speaks of many Christian martyrs. Oh! how Christians hate that study (Christians...Die..), and take that hate out upon myself! Never minding the clear and concise Scriptures which speak of the faithful that die during the Tribulation, they rather are in effect saying: "Give me a teacher that will sooth me and tell me sweet things; and away with that fellow who tells me hard things backup-up by Scripture. I will follow whims and words of peace and safety from man, not God's hard words in unbreakable foreordained prophecy". Well, sticking your head in the sand doesn't stop the wolf from ravaging you. Better to be prepared and to stand and fight, instead of giving your back to the enemy. But in all things: trust the Lord; for, He does protect many of the weaker of the flock―like a true Shepherd always does. "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep." (Jesus Christ; John 10:11). Will you be a martyred? Only if you choose to be. God will not put on you more than you can bear:
Though many Christians cannot fathom this, they might be surprised to know that God actually has a surplus of willing martyrs. I have heard from many of them in letters. Many would consider it an honor to die for our Lord and in defense of the Great Kingdom which never ceases. Perhaps they were chosen for it in the world that was; we cannot now know. But that is why they are to be so well rewarded above all other of the faithful from all times, as also shall those Christians who weather the storm and remain faithful till the Second Advent:
Don't these deserve greater glory that those Christians who didn't give the ultimate sacrifice (their life) or too endure the challenges of the Tribulation and overcome? I would say that they do. It's easy to be a Christian when it costs you nothing, when you do all the taking and are not required to give any more than your faith. Many throughout history have endured tortures unimaginable for their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and for the defense of the Gospel. And many shall be killed for that faith in the Great Tribulation. And I dare say that they deserve a seat much higher than I, should I die peacefully in my sleep tonight. Don't you? What does it cost me to be a Christian today, a few snickers from the dead souls? That is not much of a price to pay for eternal glory. But consider this: What shall you do if you are one who is seized and made to choose as Scripture declares many shall be. It seems that Christians close their eyes when they read the below Scripture. They love to have pastors and priests and teachers prophesy to them smooth things. Peace and safety, that's the dish of their day. They like to be coddled and given a "false" (I use that word here carefully, please allow me) sense of security. Had not the below been a problem that many Christians would face, then God wouldn't have bothered to warn us of it in the Christian Bible. But He did warn us. You had better open your eyes to this now; for, I assure you, your eyes shall be quite widely opened at the below time, even if you aren't the one being persecuted; for, you shall know of it happening, and no doubt will lose friends and loves ones to it:
Ergo, if you don't want to be a martyr, and don't want to betray Christ, then don't let antichrist's minions on the Earth catch you (which are alive today, I might add―but many in great error call them "God's chosen people"). Or, pray that you are in one of the two below groups who God miraculously helps and hides; the first group being hidden from the first beast of Rev 13 (for 42 months), and the second group being hidden from the second beast of Rev 13 (for a time, times, and half time [5 months?]); i.e., both parts of the Tribulation, but not necessarily the same people in both: Protection For Certain Christians In First Part of Tribulation:
Protection For Certain Christians In Second Part of Tribulation:
Will all Christians be in the above two protected groups? No! Remember:
I take it that my point is not missed that these later martyrs are killed squarely in the midst of the Tribulation, between the fifth seal and sixth seal. There shall be others; see our: Scriptural Evidences That Christians Shall Die In The Great Tribulation I am not trying to scare you, I am trying to prepare you. Who am I? Nobody, just a Bible student who likes to write Bible studies documented with Scripture. Prove me wrong with the Scriptures and I shall repent of my position, and change my mind―the right of every fallible human being―and one which I reserve to myself. And did not the above, regarding the second group of protected in the Tribulation, even go on to say, if we had continued the verse further:
The above remnant "and went to make war with the remnant of her seed" (Rev 12:17b) are seen in Daniel's prophecy as well: "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them" (Dan 7:21). You who object to the teaching (and those who dare teach it) that Christians shall be killed in the Tribulation, I ask you this: what will you do with the above Scripture (Rev 12:17 & Dan 7:21)? Throw them out too? Spiritualize it away as you have been doing with much (if not all) of the book of Revelation? Why is it that Christians always feel that they cannot be wrong? I've seen many promises in the Bible, but I haven't seen that one. Some Christians Shall Die In The Great Tribulation. Moving on.... I still feel as though I haven't made my point clearly. Suffice it to say that, when we die, we don't go into a spiritual body, our soul leaves this flesh body. When we resurrect, our soul goes into a spiritual body. Perhaps a crude diagram may help to put a picture in the place of a thousand words. Below at the top left of the diagram, we see that we were in Heaven in our angelic bodies before this world began. We were the sons of God (no gender implied). It was here and then that there was a rebellion in Heaven (touched on briefly in Rev 12:1-4, and scant other places in the Bible), the particulars of we are not well told. Then moving strait down on the diagram, we see that our souls and spirit were placed into a flesh body birthed from a womb. (A soul is us, whether in flesh or angelic bodies; a spirit is the life of us whether in flesh or angelic bodies) Then at some point we die. Some go to one side of the holding place in Heaven (illustrated in Luke 16), some go to the other side; but we ALL return to the Father. Then by and by we are resurrected. Then, after the final events of Rev 20 we go to Judgement Day. Some of us are judged to eternal life, some are judged to eternal death (the second death) in the Lake of Fire. Then the "Lake of Fire souls" are gone forever, and the overcoming souls spend the eternity with God as the sons of God (in those angelic bodies):
Regarding "spiritual bodies", I am as guilty as the next person for confusing this in my writings. Many do the same, because to stop and explain the particular form (it's not always a "body") every time one mentions an entity, would make an unreadable for clutter Bible study. But I shall try to be cognizant of this in future writings. And I often use the term "spiritual body" to describe what we become after we die. This is also confusing, but is also done by most all who know the difference. Usually, it is not relevant to the point. But here today it is, so I shall explain myself as clearly and unambiguously as I possibly can on the matter. Technically, It is not correct to use the term spiritual body EVER; for, a spirit has no body, as our Lord so stated:
The natural inclination is to then further confuse this by saying that Jesus had a "spiritual body" not made of flesh and bones. That is not correct, and further confuses the matter. And here's where it becomes even more confusing. A spirit is just that, an invisible un-touchable, un-seeable "thing." Even the Strong's definition describes a spirit as such:
Even Jesus described to Nicodemus that a spirit was such. In the below, we are not going to be going into the "born again" thing, we are visiting the below solely for Jesus' definition of a spirit:
Not one time was a spirit seen in the Bible. Every spirit was within a person. The evil spirits possessed the demoniacs (possessed people), and the Holy Spirit is always called the Spirit of God. Our spirits are within these our flesh bodies. A spirit has no form, has no mass; a spirit is in another realm, another dimension. Many saw Jesus Christ, Moses saw the "back parts" of God, but none has seen the Holy Spirit; for it is not a separate entity from God, it is the Spirit of God, and yes, it is Most Holy. Our study, The Holy Spirit & The Holy Trinity, may help at this point. So, while spirits cannot be seen, and were not seen in the bible; angels were seen and can be seen. Angels are not spirits―they have spirits. Evil spirits are not angels, they are spirits without form, or mass, or body. An evil angel is an evil spirit in an angelic body. A good angel is a good spirit in an angelic body. That is why to been seen, touched, heard, etc., the spirit must possesses a living creature (unless it is in angelic form). When Christ cast out Legion (the multiple evil spirits), they were not seen; they had to enter the swine; then the people saw the swine run into the sea. You can't see air, and you can't see spirits, for a spirit is as Strong's stated above, like "a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze". So, while you cannot see spirits, you can discern spirits; that's one of the spiritual gifts in Corinthians: "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues" (1 Cor 12:10). Surely many of you have looked at a person and just got the "willies." What you sensed was an evil spirit, though you could not see it. Some Christians are better gifted to sense the spirits in people. Most Christians can discern the strong ones, but miss the weak or hidden ones. It is a gift from God. We all have different gifts, as the above Corinthians Scripture lays out. There are no spirits drifting around, they must be in a body (someone else's, for they have no body of their own; as we won't have a body when we die―until we resurrect, that is.) to manifest in this realm (our flesh world). Even the sons of God (the fallen angels in this case), who came to Earth in Genesis chapter six and mated with fallen women (which shall happen again at the end, I might add), had bodies. They were not "spirits," they were evil spirits in angelic bodies who had come to Earth in direct opposition to God's command, and they impregnated human females. Children were born of this abominable union, and God sent a flood (of Noah) to destroy these giants. The point is, whenever an angel, both good or bad, comes to Earth and is seen by man―it is in a body, an angelic body, which is far different that a spirit. A possessed person is infected by an evil spirit; the fallen angels were evil spirits in their angelic bodies; a good angel is a good spirit in it's angelic body; the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God which dwells within every Christian to help, guide, and protect us; our spirit is the spirit of our soul (our soul IS us whether in flesh body, angelic body, or no body) that is within our flesh bodies. When we die, that spirit of that soul (us) goes to a holding place in Heaven. If we be a Christian then we are on the good side of that place; if we were evil and unbelieving then we are on the bad side of that place―but we have no body there. Then we are resurrected into our angelic bodies to go on to Rev 20 and Judgement Day. The bad ones perish completely in the Lake of Fire. The good ones spend eternity in their angelic bodies with God. The serpent in the Garden of Eden was no snake, nor was he a spirit; the serpent in the Garden of Eden was satan's spirit in an angelic body. And as many of you know, but most other Christians do not; satan, as the serpent, impregnated Eve and she bore Cain. See our: What was the Real sin in the garden of Eden? Even when Jesus returned to the Apostles after that He had resurrected―He was in a body. Now, Jesus' body that He returned in we cannot know what manner it was; for, Jesus' flesh body did not stay on the Earth to |
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